The Union Law Minister on the Jan Lokpal Bill- A Must Read

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Jan Lokpal Bill would lead to a police state: Salman Khurshid

Soma Banerjee, ET Bureau Aug 20, 2011, 07.13am IST

India will become a police state if Anna Hazare 's version of the Lokpal bill is accepted, according to Law Minister Salman Khurshid . The suggestions made by Hazare and his team for creating a tough anti-corruption institution go "against the federal fabric of our country", says Khurshid. Although it is not the best of times for a minister to hold forth on governance - when his government is facing a hostile opposition in the House and a belligerent civil society outside - Khurshid is candid about the government's hard line despite popular protests. In a frank conversation with ET , Khurshid talks about his government's position, its strategy and views on the Lokpal. Excerpts:

Team Anna has demanded that it is only the Jan Lokpal bill that can address the issue of corruption in a meaningful way. What are main objections to the bill?

We cannot accept what is being demanded as the Constitution does not allow us to do so. Accepting those provisions would mean transforming the democratic set up to a police state. The Jan Lokpal Bill calls for officers at every administrative level who'll carry out investigations and prosecutions. This would lead to creation of a police state. Second, they (Team Anna) want the Lokpal Bill to automatically come into effect at the state and central level.

This goes against the federal fabric of our country. They wanted death penalty for corruption, which they have now toned down to life imprisonment. Is that what our democracy is all about? They want the judiciary and the prime minister to be under the ambit of the Lokpal. We have suggested a judicial commission for the judiciary.

Team Anna wants the government to withdraw the current bill and introduce the Jan Lokpal bill instead. How will you break this logjam?

We hope to have a robust debate in the Parliament and appoint a strong Lokpal. The standing committee, or opposition members, can suggest amendments and these can be debated. On the demand that the current bill be withdrawn, I am not too sure if that is the way forward. Bills are withdrawn and sometimes they lapse but there are no instances where the government is forced to withdraw a bill under pressure.

Do you think the govt'strategy to disallow the protest failed?

I do not think we were wrong in doing what we did. We had been in discussions, we had hoped that they would see reason. There were other options too. For one, we could have allowed him (Hazare) to fast and lead demonstrations and waited till the matter went out of control. Who would have been responsible for not being able to handle the situation? The other would be to surrender and abdicate our responsibilities and allow them to play our role as lawmakers.

Can any MP agree to that? In hindsight, we have been able to get Anna & Co to see some reason. Their initial plan was 'fast unto death'. Then it changed to indefinite and, as of now, the fast is for a fortnight. Second, they have accepted medical supervision of Anna's health and Dr Naresh Trehan will be a part of the medical team. We will wait 'n' watch. We have to get down to a dialogue.

Don't you agree that the govt's failure to tackle the situation provided a ready platform to the opposition parties?

The opposition parties cannot deny the importance or the role of the Parliament. I do not think any one of them would be willing to surrender their responsibilities as lawmakers. How can a senior leader like Advani compare Anna being in jail to Emergency? Anna was held in jail for only eight hours. Comparing the situation to Emergency is to mock at the sacrifices during Emergency. Anna has stayed at Tihar Jail on his own will for three nights.

Do you think the government failed to read the pulse of the people?

Anna and Co are talking of a 40,000-odd crowd in one city. The Congress party has pulled crowds for decades together. One would want to know who all constitute the crowd. Do they know what they want? Do they want a police state? And, if they don't, then are they not being farcical? They need to understand what they are protesting against. Will the Lokpal end all corruption?

But won't you agree that corruption is a big issue today?

Yes, and we are working towards weeding out corruption. The Lokpal is a significant legislation in this regard. But this is not only about corruption. People today are more aware, empowered and demanding. They want a better quality of life. Economic prosperity and a vibrant democracy have helped increase awareness. Today, citizens know about their rights. The Land Rehabilitation Bill is a perfect example of this.

Proud of Our Democracy

Anna Hazzare is hailed today as democracy’s hero. Yes, he is the champion of democracy for he has managed to vividly explain the concept of democracy, at least to me. Democracy is a system that gives you the right to undemocratically protest against a government you yourself elect and not face any severe consequences for it. In the letter Mr. Anna Hazzare wrote to our Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, he stated the purpose for his fasting as- “What are we asking for? We are not saying that you should accept the Bill drafted by us. But kindly create a credible platform for discussions, a joint committee with at least half members from civil society suggested by us”. Now, that was achieved some time ago. Yet, “not happy with the outcome” Mr. Anna Hazzare now has started his second ‘fasting’ stint with the intention of making this the Second War of Independence. The step-by-step blackmailing process has been invented!

The Freedom movement of today is here. Freedom to do what? Freedom to emotionally blackmail the government into doing exactly what you want it to do. He compares himself to the freedom fighters of British India but he forgets that they never emotionally blackmailed the British crown (not that British crown could ever be emotionally blackmailed) but fought valiantly and they sought to fight the imperialists and colonialist as democratically as they possibly could. Well, isn’t then the scenario today just the opposite?

Mr. Anna Hazzare is compared to the father of our nation. Well, then possibly there has been a slight error there. Gandhiji never ridiculed the British in his call for India’s freedom and progress. He fought with the intention of winning independence but not with the goal of finishing the British and that is a major difference. Mr. Anna Hazzare threatening tone against the Congress Government cannot be compared to Gandhiji’s moving speeches to encourage people to join him. If the British agreed to the terms of the INC back then, Gandhiji would have applauded them rather than presenting them with a further set of demands. Furthermore, Gandhiji did not think twice before calling off the Non-Cooperation Movement due to the unrest especially the Chauri-Chaura incident but Anna Hazzare himself has given the war cry and causing public disorder. People forget that loosing order back then would be acceptable as we were repressed and ruled upon by a foreign entity. But loosing order today when the government has been democratically elected by the people themselves and we are ruled by our chosen representatives, has hurt India’s image as a stable democracy.

Due to our liberal constituent assembly and especially its drafting committee, we have the right to free speech and expression. But there is also the section 499 of the Indian Penal Code which defines the law of defamation as exposing a man to hatred, ridicule or contempt. Hasn’t that been violated by team Anna on a public platform? Also, the freedom to assemble guaranteed by Article 19(1)(b) under Fundamental rights has been quoted many a times by some of the ignorant supporters of Mr. Anna Hazzare but they forget that there are limitations to this right. When the question of public order arises then assemblies in question can be considered unlawful and the police had warned Mr. Anna Hazzare about the same. Were they wrong in arresting him then? Can anyone ignore the instructions of the police and break the law and get away with it then? Are we not ridiculing our laws and our constitution then?

Stating the facts of what transpired on 16^th August 2011, the Prime Minister said “On the evening of August 15, 2011, Shri Anna Hazzare, through public statements, made it clear that he and his supporters would converge at Jai Prakash Narayan Park and defy the prohibitory orders under section 144 CrPC. Yesterday morning, Delhi Police reviewed the situation. Delhi Police came to the conclusion that it was clear that Shri Anna Hazzare and his supporters would commit a cognizable offence and there was a likelihood of a breach of peace. Hence, Shri Anna Hazzare and six others were arrested, as a preventive measure, under section 151/107 CrPC. They were taken to the Delhi Police Officers' Mess at Alipur Road and, subsequently, produced before a Magistrate. Delhi Police did not seek the police remand of the arrested persons. The Magistrate offered to release the arrested persons on their personal bonds subject to the condition that they would undertake not to violate the prohibitory orders. However, Shri Anna Hazzare and others refused to give such an undertaking or furnish personal bonds. Hence, the Magistrate remanded the arrested persons to 7 days judicial custody. Meanwhile, during the course of yesterday, about 2,603 persons were detained in Delhi when they were proceeding to or were in areas where prohibitory orders under section 144 CrPC were in force. All of them were released later in the evening yesterday.”

What the media conveniently telecasted was- “Anna Arrested” and a few hours later “Anna to remain in judicial custody for seven days”. The fact that he refused to pay the bond and hence the law left the magistrate with no option but that of judicial custody was never telecasted. Then Mr. Anna Hazzare was raised to a heroic stature and the news of him refusing to pay the surety bond was released. Well at least that he learnt right from Gandhiji. That however does not justify anything. In his speeches around the time of his second fast (16^th August2011), Mr. Anna Hazzare has been using the term Congress government instead of government infusing a doubt in my mind of the integrity of his cause. But I give him the benefit of the doubt here.

I am not against the cause he is putting forth but yes, I am against his actions and the implementation of his “Gandhian ideology” in today’s democratic India. The corruption affecting the common man the most is the one it faces from those in the administration and not the government which is strictly the executive. The traffic police constable who takes a bribe or the rationing officer is not the government and neither do they change every five years like our government. We need to attack that first for it affects our common man more and the Lok Pal bill does not do anything about it. If the grass-root is clean only then can we have the hope for a cleaner top brass. And one Lok Pal bill working top down will not help us.  So yes, Wake up! Fight corruption! But in the right direction. 

Yet again I state, I am not against Mr. Anna Hazzare’s cause. His idea of a corruption free India is a one shared by all the citizens of this magnificent nation but is his execution appropriate in a democratic setup? How does any citizen have the right to introduce a bill in the Lok Sabha? We have a legislature formed by the legislators we have elected ourselves for this purpose. And now the executive itself had introduced the bill in the Lok Sabha. What more should we ask for? Panchayati Raj works okay when we have a village with a population of thousands. The concept of direct democratic form with a population of over a billion is a bit impractical and inefficient and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize this. If the Jan Lokpal comes into force then we will have a police state instead of a democratic one. And is there a guarantee that the Lokpal will not be corrupt? I do not think so.

I am proud of our democracy and our government for tolerating this movement with a calmness and composure. Bravo!